Screenwriter Audrey Shulman puts in the work
Audrey with her book of essays and recipes that led to her first major feature film
I spoke with my dear friend and former roommate, writer, Audrey Shulman. I enjoyed the rare opportunity to ask nosey questions about her career and get some honest advice for want-to-be screenwriters.
Anna: What do you do?
Audrey: I am a screenwriter based here in Nashville, my beloved hometown.
How do you describe your voice as a writer?
Self deprecating and empathetic.
How did you get interested in Screenwriting?
I always wanted to be a writer. And for a little while I thought maybe I would be a teacher, or maybe I would do something at a museum because I loved art and art history, but was not an artist. For a while I wanted to write novels, but it just seemed so intimidating. Prose is not really my strength. I didn't take a screenwriting class until I went to college. My mom tried to sign me up for screenwriting classes here at Watkins Film School in middle school, but I was always the only person who signed up and the classes were canceled. When I took a screenwriting class in college, it was so clear to me that it was a medium that was natural for me to write in. And it was less overwhelming because the script can only be so many pages. I was really interested in TV writing, and then it just turned out that after years of assistant work, I was able to transition to movie writing.
I always loved to read when I was little. I love to read and I love to write. I was always writing stories.
Are there any writers or movies that inspired you growing up?
The movie that really made me want to be a screenwriter and realize that people wrote screenplays as a job was The Royal Tenenbaums, which is still one of my very favorite movies. I was just so fascinated by that movie, and so moved by it and I remember thinking, “Oh, someone wrote this. This is a job someone did.” And I think that was the beginning of the real interest for me.
What is it about that movie that you love?
Every character is so specific and the dynamics between those characters are so memorable. It's almost as rich as a novel. You know, in the beginning when you see all of the different characters in their outfits and it says who's playing them? I just love that. But I also got inspired watching fluffier rom-com’s. Never Been Kissed is one of my very favorite movies. 10 Things I Hate About You is one of my favorite movies. They have substance of course, but I think The Royal Tenenbaums felt deeper to me.
What advice would you give someone trying to break into screenwriting?
I would tell them to read. Try and get your hands on as many scripts as you can for things that have been made. Because reading good scripts will make you a better writer. I would say to write as much as you can, even if it's just an hour every day.
If you really want to be a screenwriter, I think you're gonna have to move to LA, but you have to really want to do it. Try to get a job in the industry just to meet people. Even if you work at a restaurant in LA, you’ll make friends with people that work in the industry.
There are so many ways to break in but you have to always be working on your writing. Because you have to have something to show if you want to be a writer. You'll get better as you go. You need to be able to demonstrate that you're really invested in it. There are a lot of people that want to be writers and a lot of people that call themselves writers but they're not actually writing.
When you look back on your career, were there any moments where you didn't know what you were doing that ended up being really key in being able to do this professionally?
I was always very grateful to people for advice or being willing to make a connection for me. One of my bosses was really good to me. She's still a mentor. I had written a pilot based on my book (Sitting in Bars with Cake). No one was reading it. No one was getting back to me. And she offered to send the book to a movie producer thinking it would be a good movie. I was grateful but I thought it wouldn't really come to anything. So we sent the movie producer a copy of my book, and we met and ultimately that's the woman that was the producer of my cake movie. It changed the whole trajectory of my career.
I think to be successful as a screenwriter, it may be the same as a writer, if you're writing fiction, or novels or short stories, but I think you have to be talented, you have to be a really hard worker. But you also just have to be lucky. You have to have your material ready. You have to be ready for an opportunity that happens for you, because if you're not, and it goes away, you may have to wait a really long time for the next chance or it may not come again at all.
That's so important, you might have these lucky moments and opportunities but you also have to have the work to back it up and things to show people when they ask for it.
It's hard. When you're working a regular job and you're trying to write on the side and you still want to call your grandmother and go to the grocery store and go to your exercise class once a week. To do all of these things is hard. But it's very rewarding. I know so many talented writers that are either stuck in a different place, like they're in kids TV and they want to write regular TV, or they've just never gotten a break. You have to decide if writing is really what you want to do for yourself. Because if it's for someone else, and it never happens, it can be really, really frustrating.
What is your dream project? Or did you already do your dream project?
Sitting in Bars with Cake was a dream project in that it was such a tribute to my friend who died, and everyone who worked on the movie was so kind and so collaborative, and so supportive. I will never take that for granted. I think my experience was just so unusual.
Another dream project for me would be to work on a TV show because I've never been staffed on a TV show, I've only been an assistant on one. I did get to write an episode as the writers' assistant on a kids' show, but it never aired -- that was a really great experience.
Any time you get to work on a movie you're really excited about is such a gift. So I'm working on a rom-com project right now and I feel like that's my latest dream project because I'm really excited about it.
So, Sitting in Bars with Cake was your first big non-Hallmark movie. Was there anything that surprised you about working on that movie?
I was amazed and surprised at how wonderful everyone was. It did not surprise me that the movie took so long to get made because movies just take a long time. Amazon bought the movie in 2019 and it was not made until 2022 and did not come out until 2023.
What surprised me, but maybe shouldn't have, is that the casting affected how the revisions went. The character that was inspired by my friend Chrissy was written to be much more outgoing than the character based on me. But when they cast Odessa [A’zion] to play the character the producer said “you're really gonna like her energy.” She's much more rock and roll. So that affected how I rewrote some of her lines and thought about how her parents were, and how other characters were around her. That has never happened with any of my Hallmark projects.
I never really envisioned this girl that had a bunch of tattoos and this big beautiful curly hair, but I think it worked beautifully. I just think she did such an incredible job.
Do you consider yourself a lifelong learner? Are there things that you're still discovering?
Oh, definitely. I have so much to learn about writing. I'm always trying to read other scripts. I'm always trying to watch more movies, which is hard when you have a little kid and you're falling asleep after the first half hour, even if you love the movie, you're just tired from chasing someone around most of the day.
I’m lucky, I have a lot of really creative writer friends who will meet to talk about each other's work. I think giving notes to other friends and being a good note taker yourself and not being defensive but open to constructive help is really important.
I think that going to a really artsy, creative, weird school (Bennington) made me always want to be learning about other people and other people's careers and passions and interests. So, like, I'm fascinated by people who are dental hygienists, like what does that mean? What’s your training like? What tools do you use? Everyone is interesting.
What do you think is the value of movies and TVs in the world? You're such a warm hearted person and always volunteering for important causes (like CASA). Do you feel like there's something about your writing that can benefit people?
When I was in college, I did a brief internship at an organization called FilmAid International. They would show movies in refugee camps around the world. I thought it was such an incredible idea because obviously, movies and TV shows mean so much to people and can change their opinions about things. Or make them feel validated or make them feel like they have a break from a horrible day or a hard situation they're going through.
I think movies and TV shows are really important sources of comfort or guidance for people whether it's a Hallmark movie or whether it's an arthouse movie or an Academy Award winning movie. Hopefully it's inspiring them in some way or helping them in some way, not just filling a void.
Do you have any hopes of what your legacy would be?
I would hope that one day my son watches things that I've written and really laughs or gets something out of them or they make him feel good in some way. My family friend who's a hospital chaplain has told me how much Hallmark movies mean to people who are in the hospital, and that's really sweet and validating to hear. I hope something I write will one day change someone’s mind about something or introduce them to a new perspective or just inspire them in even some small way. It's a powerful medium and can reach so many people.
It's funny, when we were roommates in LA, when we first moved there, everyone was like, “it'll take 10 years no matter what you want to do.” It takes a long time to make connections. Do you think there's truth in that?
Yes. I do. It took me 9.9 years to join the Writers Guild of America. After many, many years of getting up early to write. I think everyone has their way to join the industry, but I think if you're patient and persevere, it can pay off. But yeah, my path was driving a golf cart delivering mail. Being an assistant at a lot of different places, working in kids TV, working for studios, going back to Kids TV and then being really lucky.
Audrey and Anna in Los Angeles in 2009
What's your writing process? Do you outline?
I am a terrible outliner but it is so important to outline when writing a script because you can just be writing to nowhere. When I first have an idea, I read scripts that are similar to what I'm thinking of. If I want to write a dramedy, I'll read dramedy scripts or I'll watch dramedy movies. I like to write by hand sometimes. I'll come up with characters and concepts and scenes that are fun for me, whether they make it into the script or not. I’ll do very broad stroke brainstorming and then try and zero in as I write an outline.
There's a book I really recommend if you want to be a screenwriter called Save the Cat by Blake Snyder. I recently started it from the beginning again, and it's very, very helpful. And Inside the Writers Room is a very good resource for writing TV shows.
So, I just like to start really, really broad and then as I outline, get much more specific. And workshop things with my writers group so that I feel like I'm not writing in a void. I think if people give you notes, especially if you have a friend you trust that gives you a note or you have multiple friends giving you the same note, you should pay attention. I guess I just like to write about things that I haven't seen before or that would be exciting to me.
Watch Audrey’s movie, Sitting in Bars with Cake on Amazon Prime Video (be prepared to laugh and cry) and follow her on Instagram @audrey_shulman